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# The Stanley Parable’s Davey Wreden on breaking the fourth wall
- URL: https://www.killscreen.com/podcast/the-stanley-parables-davey-wreden-on-breaking-the-fourth-wall/
- Published: 2020-08-07T00:00:00.000Z
- Updated: 2025-01-08T22:27:23.000Z
- Description: Davey Wreden flipped the post-modern switch with a fourth-wall breaking effort that evoked Cervantes and his favorite director Charlie Kaufman. We talked to Wreden about his design process, why games need an emotional core, and why film school isn’t for everybody.
- Author: Jamin Warren
- Tags: Podcast, Davey Wreden, film school

When people ask what it means to make a game, they typically point to a standard set of devices: points, scores, levels, and so on. It’s rare that story makes the list. And yet, gamemaker Davey Wreden was able to move the medium to new heights with a deep exploration of story in his breakout freshman title [The Stanley Parable](https://www.stanleyparable.com/?ref=killscreen.com), a tale of an office worker who veers from the script. With [The Beginner’s Guide](https://thebeginnersgui.de/?ref=killscreen.com), Wreden flipped the post-modern switch with a fourth-wall breaking effort that evoked Cervantes and his favorite director Charlie Kaufman. We talked to Wreden about his design process, why games need an emotional core, and why film school isn’t for everybody.

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**Resources:**

\+ [The Stanley Parable](https://www.stanleyparable.com/?ref=killscreen.com)

\+ [The Beginner's Guide](http://everythingunlimitedltd.com/?ref=killscreen.com)

**Host:**

Jamin Warren 

**Credits:**

[Anthony Martinez, producer](https://twitter.com/martinez%5Fa?lang=en&ref=killscreen.com)

[Nick Sylvester, music](https://twitter.com/nickgodmode?lang=en&ref=killscreen.com)